Wednesday, May 30, 2007

2+2 - A Clique to Far?

The 2+2 forums are a truly amazing place - by far the biggest poker forum around they have an opportunity to be a great place for players at all levels of the game.... instead the place is unwelcoming to newer players - sometimes to the point of being downright nasty, it is a serious clique with the 'in crowd' posting what they like for each others amusement (while genuine but misguided questions asked by novices are usually locked within minutes...). Many of the posters these days seem more interested in getting their 'post count' up than contributing anything of value.

The worst of 2+2 is personified by one person - Wiggs73 - if there ever were a clearer case of ego out-weighing intellect then I have yet to see it. This guy 'moderates' the 1-Table tournament section, at the same time as admitting he does not play SNGs he feels the need to add his innane comments again and again. He stifles contribution by newer players - adds the websites of his friends to the FAQ and generally comes across as a low IQ guy with a very inflated opinion of himself... come on Mason Malmuth - your forum would be a much better place without him.

Do not mean to come across too negatively about all this - there are many excellent posts to be found at 2+2 despite the moderation shortcomings... what really gets me here is the missed opportunity - without Wiggs73 the SNG forum could become a great place to hang out once again.

On a slightly different topic Titan Poker have had a redesign - gone for Black and Red rather than their usual blue and added their 'Titan Poker Training Academy' too... still my favourite site - not too much chance of the opponents there getting good soon - they are still at the stage of thinking A-6 is a monster!! Any how check them out here... Titan Poker

GL at the tables,



Anonymous said...

2+2 is to the point where it is difficult to sift the wheat from the chaf....there's so much of the latter.
Don't know if you had noticed, but Ed Miller no longer posts there and is no longer affiliated with the site. In fact, he is living in NYC. He wanted to turn the forum into something great, but alas, no one else at 2+2 shared his viewpoint. It's a shame.

Mark said...

Fair point there... while Wiggs is a great example of what is wrong at the end of the day it is a failure of management / vision.

Did not realise Ed Miller had gone though - thanks for that!

Wiggs said...

Hi Mark,

I happened to find this the other day... I initially wasn't going to respond, but I decided I would.

For the most part, I'm just a little confused as to why you have so much bitterness built up towards me. Like, honestly, I'm really curious what I did to cause all this.

I'll be the first to admit, I locked a few threads that I probably shouldn't have for about the first 2 weeks after I started modding STTF. It was a new thing for me to have some control over what content was allowed, but I realized I was probably not leaving enough noobish threads open, so I changed that pretty quickly (I think DevinLake had a similar 'learning curve', fwiw).

But most of what you said just seems entirely off base to me. For one, "adds the websites of his friends to the FAQ" is just absurd. I've met a total of two people from 2+2 in real life, Bones and Cha59. I'm pretty sure I haven't put a link to anything in the FAQ that was written by them. A lot of what's in the FAQ was in the older FAQ that Citanul, Bluefeet, and Durron597 collaborated to write. DevinLake wrote some of what's in the new one, as did I, but to say that I somehow used the FAQ to boost my friends esteem or some such is ridiculous. It really seems like you were just digging there for something else to bash me for.

And yes, I don't play SNGs much at all any more. If you'll look back over my 5k or so posts, most of the strategy posts come in 2 forms. A lot of what I post is replies to very simple push/fold questions from newer players that still seem intuitive to me since I *did* played thousands of SNGs before I switched to playing primarily cash games. Most of the other posts are in response to early-game play where stacks are deeper. I'm a winner over 100k+ hands of NL cash, so I do feel pretty comfortable playing with deeper stacks. At any rate, I haven't been posting a ton of strategy lately, but back when I did I even made it a point to reply to threads from guys who haven't been around for that long. But if I reply to anyone and give advice that I'm not sure of, it's just to generate discussion and I will usually openly state that I'm not set on that particular advice. I guess maybe you mistook me posting replies to SNG questions even though I don't play SNGs any more as arrogance... like "Well I don't play any more and god, even I know the answer to this!" when in actuallity my attitude is more like "I don't play SNGs any more, but if I had been playing this, here's what I would have done, fwiw." At any rate... the fact that I'm moderator has very little to do with SNGs. 2+2 doesn't pick moderators based on their skill set as a poker player. Our job isn't to post good poker advice. We just are supposed to keep track of content, update FAQs, aid in decisions in the mod forum, etc.

At any rate, I probably locked some posts at some point that you thought should have been left unlocked. I'm sure not every decision I make will be good in the eyes of 100% of the people that read 2+2. That's fine.

But I do think most of what you said here is way off. I don't have an inflated ego of myself as a person or as a poker player.

I guess one other main point I'm wondering about is why you chose to air out your frustrations in your blog. If you really think my SNG advice is inane, then why don't you ever reply to any of my posts? I love to discuss poker and I've even stated on the forum before that I wish more people disagreed with things I said so that discussion would be better. "Yeah, good post Wiggs" doesn't do much to foster discussion, so if you ever find anything I say to be wrong, please please call me out for it. I would never purposefully post bad advice, so it would help everyone if you would hop in some threads I post in now and again and correct what I'm saying.

And if you have a problem with the way I'm modding STTF, why haven't you ever PM'ed me? I respond to every PM I get and I've definitely taken to heart some of what has been written to me and acted based upon that.

But instead of PMing me about concerns you have about actions I've taken as a mod, and instead of replying to any of my inane ramblings about hands, you just bash me on your blog. Seems very counter productive to me. If you actually want to make 2+2 a better place, then there are better ways to do it than rambling about it's short comings on a blog.

At any rate, you're entitled to your opinion even if your opinion is that I epitomize what's wrong with 2+2 and the world in general. But if you care to elaborate on anything you've said and hash some things out, then feel free to PM me on 2+2.